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Mature Adult Discussion

  • 1.  Mature Adult Discussion

    FELLOW
    Posted 08-09-2019 20:14
    I participate in the on-line discussion communities of three organizations of technical people: AIChE, NSPE (National Society of Professional Engineers), and Sigma Xi (The Scientific Research Honor Society).  They all use the same format (and, I assume, the same software) and they all have somewhat similar codes of conduct.  Sigma Xi interprets its code of conduct different than the other two in that it imposes much less censorship, indeed, almost no censorship, and, in my opinion, has discussions that are much more interesting to observe and are much more inviting for observers to join.  Engineers and scientists, like most adult professionals, want to be treated as such, and censorship above an absolute minimum suggests that we aren't mature enough to behave accordingly.  AIChE needs to rethink its censorship approach to recognize that its members are capable of civil discussion even on controversial topics.

    Neil Yeoman, PE, FAIChE
    BChE, 1956; MS, 1959


  • 2.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    SENIOR MEMBER
    Posted 08-10-2019 03:08
    Edited by Steve Cutchen 08-10-2019 03:09
    I've never been censored here. I'd hope that a professional engineering discussion group would be talking engineering topics and the only potential for censorship would be something along the lines of  posting company-sensitive or trade secret information. I'd be disappointed to find out that a forum like this might degenerate to where something like trolling or unprofessionalism would encroach on scientific and engineering assistance. That stuff can be taken to Reddit.

    Maybe some examples would be enlightening?

    ------------------------------
    Steve Cutchen
    Investigator
    US Chemical Safety Board
    Houston TX
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    FELLOW
    Posted 08-10-2019 14:45
    Re August 10 post by Steve Cutcheon:

    Steve,

    See my response to the post by Victor Rice for recent examples of what I consider inappropriate censorship.

    We may disagree on the kinds of things about which people can post on AIChE Engage.  There are things that we might want to share with our fellow AIChE members that are not uniquely specific to chemical engineering.  Doing so promotes fellowship and may create friendships; and such things should be encouraged. 

    Neil Yeoman, PE, FAIChE






  • 4.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    SENIOR MEMBER
    Posted 08-13-2019 07:15
    This is my opinion. I do not believe that censorship played a role in what is perceived as ending the discussion on climate change which is such a divisive topic. There were enough views expressed and posted and it was time to move on to other chemical engineering issues! I commend the moderator for what was done.

    Fredesvinda Bonotan-Dura, Ph.D.
    Adjunct Professor in Chem & Env Science
    CUNY-NYC College of Technology

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 5.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    FELLOW
    Posted 08-13-2019 15:48
    Edited by Neil Yeoman 08-13-2019 18:43
    Re August 13 post by Fredesvinda Bonotan-Dura:
     
    Any thread addressing climate change in any way will eventually be reduced to the debunking of false claims challenging the anthropogenic global warming reality, a theory that meets all the requirement of being a valid scientific theory.  Since there are still people who have accepted and/or are being confused by the false claims but would think differently if they understood the evidence and the conclusions based on that evidence, the more the subject is discussed by competent knowledgeable people the more those who are confused will understand and be better able to comfortably accept the conclusions of the qualified climate professionals. These discussions promote learning and should be encouraged and supported.  AIChE is legally an educational institution and all kinds of legit1mate education should be promoted, especially that for which chemical engineers are especially qualified to receive.  Money driven politics has promoted confusion and denigrated valid climate science. As people of science we have almost a moral obligation to fully understand the realities of so important a topic as climate change and help educate our non-technical friends and neighbors.  AIChE Engage has been an excellent forum for clarifying misunderstandings in this area, but there still remains some that need to be addressed.  Shutting down meaningful public discussions of important topics is totally inconsistent with what AIChE should and is supposed to be.
     
    Neil Yeoman, PE, FAIChE
    Awardee, AIChE's 2017 Service to Society Award
    Awardee, AIChE's 2013 Van Antwerpen Award for Service to the Institute
    Awardee, AIChE's 2007 Award in Chemical Engineering Practice
    Shared AIChE's 2018 Shining Star Award
    Shared AIChE's 2013 Gary Leach Award
    Past AIChE Director, 2005-2007 & 2009-2011
    Founding officer (in 1990), AIChE's Separations Divsion; Treasurer, 1990 to present
    Founding officer (in 2010), AIChE's Virtual Local Section; Treasurer, 2010 to 2018





  • 6.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    SENIOR MEMBER
    Posted 08-14-2019 11:47
    Edited by Kirsten Rosselot 09-09-2019 15:48
    Hi, everyone. Todd Przybycien is one of the eight candidates for Director in this year's AIChE elections. I asked him to share his position on climate science and he gave me permission to post this on his behalf:

    "To your question on my position, it's straightforward: climate change is an existential threat. Climate scientists are faced with the challenge of the lack of a control system, making deconvolution of anthropogenic climate change from non-anthropogenic climate change imperfect. All science is imperfect and there will always be disagreements. Scientists develop the best models they can and early predictions have been consistent with our lived experience thus far. For me, the correlations of human activity with GHG levels are clear and I am familiar with Beer's law – and the work of the IPCC is compelling/alarming. AIChE's position statement is mild, and while mild statements can be broadly inclusive of member opinions, mild won't help us deal with whatever fraction of this threat over which we can still exert some control. Can AIChE partner with AAAS, NAS/NAE and other professional/technical organizations to help move us towards solutions? Can AIChE somehow help catalyze the necessary changes in industry/agriculture/society and build consensus, recognizing the current spectrum of individual and corporate opinions? I would hope so – if not us, who?"

    Thanks so much to the candidates who have shared their position.  We are still waiting to hear from five of the ten candidates:  Dr.  Gregory Frank, who is running for President-Elect, and Professor Bob Kelly, Dr. Ann Lee, Professor Douglas Clark, and Professor Linda Broadbelt, all of whom are running for Director.  Hopefully we will hear from all of them by September 9, which is when voting begins.  We will be electing the President-Elect and four Directors.




    ------------------------------
    -Kirsten

    Kirsten Rosselot
    Process Profiles
    Calabasas, CA United States
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    SENIOR MEMBER
    Posted 08-16-2019 09:29
    In response to Neil's AS YET APPROVED post of 8/15, 10pm-

    Well Neil it appears the content you attempted to repost has been censored, again. You final observation, "I cannot imagine how that would violate any reasonable provision of the Code of Conduct.", prompted me to go read the Code of Conduct. From item 4: "The community is meant to stimulate conversation and trigger the exchange of information (technical, career-related) not to create contention. Contradictory opinions are of course welcomed, but should always be thoughtful and respectful, rather than emotional, impulsive or anger-driven (you'd be surprised, it happens)." From item 5: "AIChE Engage is a place to discuss chemical engineering, its related disciplines, professional development and education. It is not a discussion forum for politics or religion."

    While I think it unfortunate your message was deemed not in compliance (it's still not posted as of Fri morning), I can certainly see an interpretation of the Code that would cause your message to be censored. Labeling individuals in a way that has been explicitly stated to be offensive, by SOME, could certainly be judged as an act intended to create contention. This act could also be judged as "political" as opposed to a contribution intended to specifically argue the merits of your case. Again, my response is SO WHAT. But I'm not the moderator.

    At this point I am genuinely curious as to what goal of yours in this debate do you believe to be unattainable WITHOUT the act of labeling folks as a member of some group?

    ------------------------------
    Victor Rice
    Woodstock IL
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    FELLOW
    Posted 08-17-2019 01:41
    Re August 16 post by Victor Rice:

    Victor,

    The Engage software sends a copy of each submission to everyone who has posted on the thread to which the submission is submitted, so you know that I tried to expand on an earlier post and I didn't know until reading your post that mine had gotten that far.  I know that it hasn't been posted.

    To answer your question  ...

    I wrote what I tried to post to explain to a contributor why he was being called a denier when he identified  himself a skeptic.  Mine was the second unsuccessful attempt to respond.  The first, by another frequent contributor to Engage, was simply to say that it didn't make a difference what a person (not accepting the reality of anthropogenic global warming) considered himself or herself to be because whether a skeptic or a denier the effect was the same, which was to work against taking meaningful action to address the problem of the possibly impending mass extinction.  All I was trying to do was to explain why those who are passionate about protecting humanity's future don't care how a person self identifies if that person's position supports a counterproductive movement. 

    Nobody has the right to deny to others the right to use the English language as it should be used because they do not like a particular word even when it is correctly used. 

    I started this thread comparing the approach Sigma Xi takes, one very different than that of AIChE, and, in my opinion, much better, with how AIChE monitors its blog.  Sigma Xi does not permit personal attacks of any kind but they allow almost anything that is honest, truthful, and sincere. They treat their members as the mature adults they are, and thereby make their blog far better than it otherwise would be.  Yes, sometimes people who post nonsense can get embarrassed when what they have posted is shown to be nonsense, but all that really does is discourage the posting of nonsense. 

    If this conversion were being held on the Sigma Xi blog at least one contributor would observe that if one doesn't want an unflattering label don't do anything that makes that label appropriate.

    I started this thread to try to improve AIChE, something I have been trying to do for about 30 years.  I have had some success but not nearly enough.

    Neil Yeoman, PE, FAIChE
    AIChE member since 1956; AIChE Fellow since 2002
    Awardee, AIChE's 2017 Service to Society Award
    Awardee, AIChE's 2013 Van Antwerpen Award for Service to the Institute
    Awardee, AIChE's 2007 Award in Chemical Engineering Practice
    Shared AIChE's 2018 Shining Star Award
    Shared AIChE's 2013 Gary Leach Award
    Past AIChE Director, 2005-2007 & 2009-2011
    Founding officer (in 1990), AIChE's Separations Divsion, Treasurer, 1990 to present
    Founding officer (in 2010), AIChE's Virtual Local Section, Treasurer. 2010 to 2018
    Founding member & treasurer designate, The Climate Solutions Community of AIChE
                                       





  • 9.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    SENIOR MEMBER
    Posted 08-17-2019 09:43
    Thanks Neil. Your position is clear and it’s one you’re obviously comfortable with.

    ---------------------------------
    Victor Rice
    Woodstock IL
    ---------------------------------





  • 10.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    SENIOR MEMBER
    Posted 08-27-2019 09:57

    Thank you, Kirsten, for keeping track.  I will not be voting for candidates who will not clarify their position on this all-important issue.

    I was very disappointed that my original thread on the AIChE Climate Policy Statement was shut down.  For no good reason, and the questions I asked were not resolved.  Will AIChE update its policy statement?  The present version is a travesty.

    I'm also disappointed that the various climate discussions devolved into arguments about whether climate science is valid.  In my opinion, that question is settled.  My children, currently in elementary school, will see major impacts of climate change in their lifetime.

    My core question is, what can we as chemical engineers do to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and limit the impact of climate change? And what can AIChE as the chemical engineering professional society do?

    We should all start working on this because there's not much time left.




    ------------------------------
    Dr. Marc de Mul PhD,MBA
    Innovation Manager
    Weston CT
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    SENIOR MEMBER
    Posted 09-05-2019 12:11
    Edited by Kirsten Rosselot 09-09-2019 15:48
      |   view attached
    Hi, everyone.  Professor Bob Kelly is one of the 8 candidates for 4 director positions in the AIChE election this year.  He asked me to post this on his behalf:

    "I am absolutely concerned about climate change and have spent most of my career directing research to this end - e.g., CO2 capture by plants and microorganisms, bio-based chemicals from lignocellulose. This gives me an informed perspective on issues along these lines that every chemical engineer must confront. Climate change needs to be at the forefront of the profession of chemical engineering and I hope to be a leader in this regard (whether elected as a Director or not)."

    At this point we have information about the climate science position of six of the ten candidates.  I am hoping to hear from the remaining four before electronic voting begins on Monday.  I have uploaded a pdf of what we have so far.


    ------------------------------
    -Kirsten

    Kirsten Rosselot
    Process Profiles
    Calabasas, CA United States
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    2017 35 Under 35 Winner
    Posted 09-06-2019 11:11
    Edited by Nemoy Rau 09-06-2019 11:11
    Thanks, Kirsten, for keeping track and compiling this information.

    I think this is extremely important to understand where leadership stands on important issues that may require the institute to work with partnerships, lobbying with different governments, and creating new centers in collaboration with industry, nonprofits, for profits, academia and other entities.

    At the end of the day, AIChE is OUR community and the direction of the involvement at the global scale is something we all have a voice and input within.  Engaging with the leadership candidates on these important issues is important as new initiatives are created and we look for the institute to become leaders in various areas.


  • 13.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    Posted 09-09-2019 10:31
    Marc de Mul asks, "What may we chemical engineers do ... ? "  Fortunately, several years ago AIChE embraced the Ammonia Fuel Association, now Ammonia Energy Association   www.ammoniaenergy.org     by including the latter's annual meeting as an adjunct to the AIChE annual meeting.  AIChE members should attend, join, or otherwise support global efforts to commercialize this important C-free  energy carrier and low-cost storage medium for CO2-emission-free (CEF) energy sources.  Also see Japan's interest in "Energy Carriers":  http://www.jst.go.jp/sip/pdf/SIP_energycarriers2015_en.pdf     As energy professionals and citizens, our urgent task is nothing less than near-total decarbonization of the human enterprise:  energy and manufacturing, including iron ore reduction, N-fertilizer, portland cement, and crude oil refining -- while it lasts.   We cannot, and should not try to, accomplish this via electricity systems alone, although "The Grid" and "electric cars" dominate the present conversation about responses to "climate change".  We must embrace H2 and NH3 as energy carriers, storage media, and decarbonization vectors as complete, integrated, optimized energy systems.
    See The Hydrogen Council:   hydrogencouncil.com        See the International Energy Agency (IEA) report on "The Future of Hydrogen"   www.iea.org/topics/hydrogen
    Surely ChemE's will be needed for this global energy transition, and should lead it:  we now need a collaboration among a large and diverse technical and economic community to inquire, " How shall the near-total decarbonization of the human enterprise be optimally -- technically and economically -- accomplished by a synergistic mix of electricity and chemical energy systems to gather, transmit, store, distribute, and deliver firm, dispatchable, energy services from diverse CEF sources, both centralized (big solar and wind plants) and distributed (local sources, such as rooftop PV) ? "  We need to prevent over-dependence on the electricity Grid:  over-investment in designing and building the Grid, recognizing that it fundamentally operates at light speed and is therefore especially vulnerable to cyberattack; electricity storage in batteries is too costly for annual-scale firming storage; above ground infrastructure is vulnerable to acts of God and man.  Energy systems, at local to continental to global scales, based on H2, NH3, and perhaps other molecules, may be technically and economically superior, in many situations.
    We cannot afford to waste resources barking up the wrong tree, trying to push a square peg into a round hole, slowing the urgent enterprise-wide transition away from CO2-emitting processes.  We need the help of ChemE's, in many ways.
    See my work at:  www.leightyfoundation.org/earth.php    Thank you.


    ------------------------------
    [Bill Leighty]
    [The Leighty Foundation www.leightyfoundation.org/earth.php]
    [Director]
    [Alaska Applied Sciences, Inc. www.AlaskaAppliedSciences.com]
    [Juneau] [AK 99801]
    [Principal]
    ------------------------------

    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    WP16-A.pdf   541K 1 version


  • 14.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    SENIOR MEMBER
    Posted 08-10-2019 07:53
    I agree with your general idea Neil. Where I differ just a bit is on “civil” discussion. Our community is no more, and no less, capable of civil discussions than most other communities. And that’s just fine. The issue here is what is civil for one is insulting for another. I’ve seen numerous examples of this in the climate threads. Maybe in some cases it was intentional trolling. Hard to tell. But SO WHAT!! Some of these discussions are quite emotional, nay religious, to some. That should surprise no one. Some topics deserve the passion occasionally exhibited. I would certainly hope most in this community could continue to participate in a truly civil way in the face of these occasional, infrequent lapses into less civil language. And in the threads I’ve observed that’s exactly what occurred.
    I find it unacceptable that the very infrequent (IMHO) lack of civility can result in discussions being shutdown. Is this why the moderator just shutdown the Climate Policy discussion? I found this discussion VERY enlightening and was most disappointed it was shutdown. That I find just ridiculous. Maybe the moderator can enlighten us on why that occurred.
    So I definitely agree AIChE should rethink the moderator guidelines if in fact those guidelines resulted in the Climate Policy thread being shutdown.

    ---------------------------------
    Victor Rice
    Woodstock IL
    ---------------------------------





  • 15.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    FELLOW
    Posted 08-10-2019 14:27

    Re August 10 post by Victor Rice:

    Victor,

    You are correct in your assumption that my message is a result of some of the discussions in the thread on the AIChE policy statement on climate change.  It is, indeed, a topic that can generate passion and different people have different ways of expressing it.  It needs to be understood and acknowledged that those who accept the reality of anthropogenic global warming see lack of appropriate action as inviting mass extinction of species, including our own, in the not-too-distant future, preceded by incredible hardship, possibly in the lifetimes of people already born, the grandchildren and maybe even the children of people reading this post.  Two bits of censorship prompted my post.

    One of the frequent contributors to the climate change discussions included in a submission the comment that it didn't matter whether people were climate change skeptics or climate change deniers because the effect of what they seemed to support, that is, inaction, was the same.  That comment was censored out.  I became aware of this bit of censorship and decided that it would be helpful if readers understood the difference between skeptics and deniers based on my extensive experience discussing this topic in three different discussion communities.  I tried to share my experience with Engage readers and that, too, was censored out even though what I wrote was about as bland as an explanation could be.  Not too long thereafter the thread was shut down, which, I agree, was a serious mistake. 

    AIChE Engage is a place where members should be able to discuss anything of interest to us as chemical engineers and as whatever else we all are as long as the discussions are meaningful and civil. Even though I have been looking at the climate change issu for years I continue to learn by reading the Engage posts on the subject.  Positive on-line interaction among the members is a good thing and should be supported at all levels.  We can all learn from each other in many areas, including things that are not uniquely specific to our profession.

    Neil Yeoman, PE, FAIChE





  • 16.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    SENIOR MEMBER
    Posted 10-11-2019 13:51
    This must be the second time I post a comment, as visit the AIChE site I very sporadically (coincidentally, this is again a reply to a posting from Neil.)  I find the aversion to conflict in the moderation of these (supposedly) open discussions quite disturbing.  It is not only OK but very healthy for a community to show a wide diversity of viewpoints on a subject.  The science of climate change is evolving as humanity develops more tools of understanding.  My first stand on the issue is to take a personal responsibility on how my life contributes to the spiraling growth of carbon emissions; for instance, reducing . t a bare minimum my meat consumption (my cardiologist will be proud when I tell him); trying to combine errands to reduce the use of my car (despite my long-standing career with and gratitude to the energy industry); using videoconferencing whenever I can instead of air travel; etc.
    Wait a second! a reader may say... is this a "real chemical engineering" posting? To that I'd say, yes, of course... chemical engineering has informed the way I approach possibilities to make this journey meaningful.  I was fortunate to discover the essence of process engineering and extrapolate the idea of process to everything going on.
    Climate change is the combined effect of the myriad of decisions made by humanity through numerous scientific revolutions. Nos it's time to clean the mess.  I'll be back... and hopefully I find controversy.

    ------------------------------
    Manuel Quintana ME,MBA
    Quintana Consulting Svcs. LLC
    Houston TX
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    SENIOR MEMBER
    Posted 08-10-2019 09:49
    I agree with Neil.  We are too old for a spanking.

    ------------------------------
    Ronald Shewchuk
    QUALITY
    Air Liquide Americas
    Chester Springs PA
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    SENIOR MEMBER
    Posted 08-10-2019 15:48
    Edited by Kirsten Rosselot 09-09-2019 15:49
    I'm super disappointed that the climate change policy statement thread was shut down.  Over the years I have seen some truly uncivil posts on climate change threads before they got moderated out -- ones that were denigrating personal attacks on the intelligence/age/mental fitness/etc. of another poster -- and not about disagreements over the issue under discussion.  AIChE moderates posts because there is conflict over the issues, and that's not healthy.

    I'm particularly disappointed about the thread being shut down because I want to hear from all of the candidates in this year's election about their stance on climate science.  So far we have only four of the ten:
    Brian Davison, running for Director (supports the science)
    Pete Lodal, running for Director (supports the AIChE policy statement)
    Bob Kiss, running for Director (supports the science)
    Deb Grubbe, running for President-Elect (doesn't personally care about the subject)

    I would still like to hear from the six remaining candidates before the deadline for casting our ballots arrives:
    Gregory Frank of Amgen (running for President-Elect)
    Linda Broadbelt at Northwestern (running for Director)
    Douglas Clark at Berkeley (running for Director)
    Bob Kelly at North Carolina State University (running for Director)
    Ann Lee at Celgene (running for Director)
    Todd Przybycien at Rensselaer (running for Director)

    ------------------------------
    -Kirsten

    Kirsten Rosselot
    Process Profiles
    Calabasas, CA United States
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    FELLOW
    Posted 08-11-2019 08:09
    Re August 11 post be Kirsten Rosselot:

    I haven't seen many posts that were personal attacks on the writer but there have been some less than gentle comments about some of the postings.  It could be a tough call as to allow or not allow such things if the submissions are reviewed before publication.  It could somtimes be hard to fault the censor in such situations.  What the AIChE censors appear to be doing is something the NSPE censors have admitted doing, that is, to ensure that posts that are utter nonsense are not identified as such because that might embarrass the poster of such nonsense. Sigma Xi takes a different approach.  When nonsense is posted others are allowed to show that it is nonsense.  The result is that a lot less nonsense is posted.  That, to me, is a better way.  The way to avoid getting embarrassed for posting nonsense is to not do it.  People should not be making strong statements about controversial issues without doing at least a little work to determine if their positions make sense. 

    Neil Yeoman, PE, FAIChE





  • 20.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    SENIOR MEMBER
    Posted 08-11-2019 16:15
    I would definitely prefer the approach that Sigma Xi is taking. An adult approach. Labeling an individual’s contribution as “utter nonsense” has to have the intent of soliciting an emotional reply. Especially if said individual was contributing in good faith. The AGW topic is VERY complex. “doing at least a little work to determine if their positions make sense” is not as easy as it may sound. I just did a quick search, sorted by date, on climate change. 2nd hit was something from Dr. Joel Meyers. One could hardly label his observations as “utter nonsense”. Worthy of a critical analyses? Sure. But, what is the non-expert to do with this factoid? Who knows. After following several of these AGW oriented threads I’ve reached the conclusion to observe, only. I do find this very useful. But posting something I find genuinely, scientifically interesting, just to have my basic intelligence questioned is just not worth the effort needed to educate my interlocutor on the error of his/her assessment of my motives or intelligence. I’ve got better uses of my time. Now some folks in these threads have been most understanding and considerate in their responses. I’d put Kirsten at the top of that list.
    Anyway, shutting down these discussions is just a bit bush league.

    ---------------------------------
    Victor Rice
    Woodstock IL
    ---------------------------------





  • 21.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    FELLOW
    Posted 08-12-2019 16:25
    Re August 11 post by Victor Rice:

    Not only is Kirsten understanding and considerate, she is also correct.  I must admit that it is hard for people like me to be as gentle as she is when self defined "skeptics" continue to challenge the realities she explains so well and for which there is so much legitimate evidentiary support.  I do not think that there is much negative commentary about basic intelligence as there is about unwillingness to open one's mind to proven realities. 

    Neil Yeoman, PE, FAIChE 





  • 22.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    SENIOR MEMBER
    Posted 08-13-2019 05:07

    I completely agree with Victor, Kirsten and others who have expressed great disappointment in the closure of the climate thread. In the words of Voltaire (apparently incorrectly attributed) 'I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it'; however I don't know who I am dying for.

    J.M.Don MacElroy






  • 23.  RE: Mature Adult Discussion

    SENIOR MEMBER
    Posted 08-12-2019 07:41
    ​I agree with Neil.

    The Climate discussion draws the highest participation, is relevant, and deserves attention and discussion.

    It is disappointing to have it closed down twice now.

    ------------------------------
    David Schatz
    Technical Manager/Senior Scientist
    ------------------------------